Wow did I hit a nerve? In Fair or Fowl I asked what people thought of someone who republishes an article, acts like they made the world a better place with their so called advice, even though a team of people took the time and energy to explain a proper methodology, which was only parroted by said poster. Who BTW did not even have the courtesy to contribute to that thread.
I guess I made headlines with his response in his article Setting Matters Straight. Well, I guess we can all play. So let's go ahead, and truly set matters straight.
EDIT: 9/30/2004PM Wow I'm Honored, or is that Horrified? Mr. Pascal makes afeeble attempt at defending his position of not posting a reference link to all of the Posts that he claims to have debunked. Was it English 101 that if you made a reference that you had to footnote and refer the reader? And if you did not, you would get a nice big fat F for your time and trouble? http://www.dbdebunk.com/page/page/2476644.htm Very Nice. Keep them coming Mr. P. This is better than stamp collecting.
EDIT: 9/30/2004 It seems Mr. Pascal has a habit of post quotes, without allowing the reader to have the ability of context to the quote. For exanple: http://www.dbdebunk.com/quotes2005.html
EDIT: 9/26/2005 A Shed Build SQL Farmer, recently starteda new thread based on Mr. Pascal's ways of quoting people and not posting any reference to his articles origination. In the Yak Corral: http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=55611
EDIT: 9/23/2005 It just never ends...and this is from an thread almost 2 years old. He's reaching now. http://www.dbm.nl/site/Hetblad/Columns/Pascal.html The original article is here: http://www.sqlteam.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=32838
EDIT: 9/14/2005 I just relalized that I'm going to make this one of my Hobbies, a thread dedicated the ways and means of Mr. Pascal. Hope you come back and check in every so often. There's always that rss thing that I know nothing about.
EDIT: 9/9/2005 And it just continues...I wonder if the have medication for what he has...although I think it's part of a nervous system disorder: http://www.gadgetopia.com/post/4293
Quotes From Mr. Pascal's Article:
In Upside Down and Backwards I debunked an exchange at SQLTeam.com,
No you did not. You did not contribute, nor did you provide a link to that article which shows basically the exact same thing the team had said. You did nothing but self promote yourself and disparage SQLTEam.
which was followed by a reaction thread, Fair or Fowl? [sic].
A reaction thread? My Blog was asking a question of what people thought about you. I am unsure of the ways of things in blogs to be sure, but what smacks of plagarism and revisionist history smelled like week old fish. If it walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, then it must be fowl.
Now, my articles usually contain substantive criticism which, if wrong, can be proven such.
Seems to me that an entire membership of people at SQLTeam and dbForums are out there trying assist and help people. If all your articles do is point out flaws, great, good for you. But in no way should you beleive that you in anyway are supporting your community. We got people like you in New York who stand on the corner all preach about the end of the world. They lost their meds as well.
But seldom do I encounter demonstrations to that effect that withstand the simplest scrutiny. The rare attempt to rebut is feeble, often outright wrong, and almost always without evidence. Worse, it is often admitted that I “may” be right (they can’t be sure)—but the problem is my “tone”, which they deem “arrogant”, not sufficiently polite, or “rude”. There are several problems with such claims, all of which are consistent with the continuing process of dumbing down in the industry that I have been documenting and deploring for years in my writings and teaching.
The rare attempt...maybe they just figure it's not woth the time...dumbing down the industry....WOW, there's an insight, you must've used a crystal ball for that one...hell with all the layoffs, I imagine the b'dness IQ must have gone up a few points...hell with you in the mix it must reall screw up the scale...I mean with an IQ 1024, you must help us all bring up the average.
First, as Jonathan Lewis points out, the objective of criticism is not social politeness, but rather technical correctness. The consequences of so much misinformation, for which those who spread it are never taken to task are much, much worse than any “hurt feelings or egos” of the disseminators.
What a load of crap. We have thousands of people that have posted at SQL team, and maybe 1% feel hurt by getting a solution. Who are you to believe that your truths are better than facts.
The fact is that the state of knowledge and reason is too sorry for even shock therapy to help, but anything less than that—any attempt by even the most patient to educate—would be a hugely prohibitive waste of time (for an excellent example, see if the patient efforts by a few relational proponents to enlighten a bunch of uneducated multi-valued DBMS proponents in Foundations of Relational Theory?) were by any measure more effective than Bob Badour’s calling the spade a spade). In an environment where 80-90% of the information is correct, the need to expose the 10-20% that is not is not acute as nonsense would be obvious. But in one with the inverse ratio, debunking nonsense with no holds barred is the least one can do, not to mention a must.
Not that you care to give examples of such...man I need to get my wadders on...it's getting deep in here....do you employee a team of script writers as well?
Second, I have never used foul language, and I dare anybody to locate any such in my writings.
Who cares, while I think it's bad form, you don't get a gold star...but I do have a lollipop for you if you'd like.
It is the people’s own ignorance that offends, I only expose it. The problem is that the amount of BS is overwhelming—a culture-wide, not just industry-wide problem (see also below)—and I am about the only one who persist in exposing it.
I mean are we talking God complex or what. Thak god (I Guess you) your around, who else would save us from ourselves.
Anybody knowledgeable who tries the same learns very quickly the price to pay for it, hence the tendency to wonder whether it’s professional, or the ease with which one can be dissuaded from it. With the few who are knowledgeable silenced, it is difficult to accept a reality where the vast majority is wrong, and only one person is right. Such a reality can only be accepted with knowledge and reason, but if those were present there would not be such a reality in the first place, and no need for debunking. A vicious cycle.
Wow, so now it's a conspiracy. Us pure mortals have driven the gods into hiding...there are others like you, right?
Third, when those who are considered, or consider themselves experts, and even have a successful career to boot, are publicly debunked, in the absence of proper knowledge and/or reasoning ability, they cannot rebut on substance.
Good for you, you have a career path. Your entire life is set on deciding who is right and who is wrong. What does that even mean? You must have a lot of freinds.
With a majority of users, employers, and trade media knowing even less, eager to ride the latest fad, and unwilling to go against the grain, there is no incentive—carrots or sticks—for them to bother acquiring knowledge (and there isn’t much to do about reason, given the sorry state of education).
Again with “sorry state of education“. What's the latest fad you speak of? And nowhere through this diatribe do you actualy talk about what really matters. Getting the job done, whatever it takes. Go against the grain? Man, alot about being successful is teamwork and partnership. If it were up to you we'd probably still be in the dark ages.
So they react in the only way they can, the very way that they—falsely!—accuse me of: personal attacks. Worse, unlike me, they use foul language, and offer no iota of justification. So blatant an inconsistency is not exactly a desirable trait for database practitioners. No wonder that the field is in such a sorry state.
Accuse you falsely? You published my name in an article and totaly misrepresent it. You misrepresent yourself as some hero that came to SQLTeam to save us from our posters because you had to debunk something, which in reality the poster was asking a question. NOTHING to debunck. WE gave hime the correct answers, which YOU just happen to regurgatate in an article AND TRIED to make yourself look like a hero.
You are no hero, you are a FRAUD.
|re: Setting Matters Straight
I'm sorry but I'd have to go with Fabian Pascal on this one. His abrasive style I'm pretty sure is partly innate but also on purpose due to his frustration with the industry (justified frustration, IMHO). Whether this style gets more results and attention or ultimately turns people off and is self-defeating is up for debate. Think of him as that idiosyncratic terror professor in college that, once you get past the initial shock, you find out you really have a lot to learn from him.
I would suggest that you read any/all of his technical or editorial articles and try to debunk the content point by point. If you can find something wrong with what he says (not how he says it) and publish it then it'll be much appreciated.
If you don't see the faddish nature of the IT industry then you probably havent been in it long enough or are directly or indirectly benefitting from it and subconsciously prefer it that way (a short term benefit though)
Remember, publicly accessible content is publicly accessible content. Everyone is free to link, quote and comment on it.
|re: Setting Matters Straight
You agree with him on what? The fact that he misrepresents himself. The fact that he plagarizes? The fact that he feels he's the only one in the industry who speaks the truth?
And as far as being around, is 25 years around enough. Sure, some groups like to be on the bleeding, but where are they now? On that's right, they're driving taxi's. So what's the point? Is the point that there are a lot of people of fall for advertizing. It's the same reason a lot of people drink Budweiser. You think it's only affects IT? I would say that's delusionsal.
And as a matter of fact, The CEO's of the worlds backlash against IT was because they were sold a bill of goods and then saw no ROI. This is what has caused the destruction of an industry. And I put the blame squarely at their feet. They hired averybodu in the world who could breath into the business. So much for the "dumbing down of the business".
P.S. They are all gone now. Along with a few of us who only know this business.
You ask me to go read his works and try and debunk his stuff. Why? That's not the focus of what I try to do. I set forth to find solutions for problems that exist today, with the tools that I have available to me. I am a lowly solutions provider. Period.
Thanks for reading, and thanks for the post.
That is an excellent point. I encourage everyone to read Dale's link.